Last week we were treated to a preview of the newest edition of Horus Heresy, with reveals of new models, boxed sets and rules. As you can imagine, the community had some strong opinions about the new kits – and so did our authors. In this roundtable, we sat down to talk about the reveals – what we liked, what we didn’t, and what it means.
What are your first impressions of the Saturnine Box?
Jelly: Scale creep is real and I’m loving it. It takes every restraint I have not to start each section with ‘god he’s big’. The Terminators are the size of Casteferrums. The Dreadnoughts dwarfs a Leviathan or Redemptor. It all has big ‘don’t talk to me or my son ever again’ energy. Even the new big spider gun is huge compared to a Tarantula. I’m really looking forward to the even bigger Jovian Terminators and Dreadnoughts for 4th Edition.
Max: Honestly my first impression of the box was mixed, but as I’ve had more time to look, I’m increasingly excited about it. I definitely was not expecting to see half the things in this box (the current release philosophy for Heresy seems to be ‘Surprise and Confuse’), but I think they all fill an interesting niche for Heresy. I think there’s a lot to like. However it definitely doesn’t feel like it has the same force coherency as the Age of Darkness box and feels like a weird box to kick off the edition with, but it looks fun regardless.
realSnice: I largely echo Max here. Overall very excited by the box at this point and do expect the new units to fill roles that we have not seen so far. The Dreadnought being what what looks like a Marine Lord of War, the Saturnines also I expect to be a Heavy Support equivalent option. Mk2 is my favorite one so this box was always going to at least be a partial win. I’m skeptical that I will use the big gun but time will tell. At a minimum it’s fun terrain.
Andrew_N: I am excited for the new set! The new Terminators and Dreadnought are BIG – and yet, I find myself liking them alot. As for the new Mark II power armor, I am over the moon for them; the old Forge World MkII models make up a good portion of my armies, but they have not aged well, size-wise. Seeing a modernized sculpt for that armor mark, and in plastic to boot, is exciting!
NotThatHenryC: Actually I think this box looks like it could be more useful to have multiples of than AoD. A huge part of that box is the Spartan, which very few armies use more than one of. People do use multiple dreadnoughts though. I guess I do share the thoughts on scale creep though.
Loxi: While there are always jokes about scale creep, I love to see big dudes. Elite options in the game for truely beefy dudes that are walking behemoths even towering above the super-soliders that are astartes is a concept I find deeply appealing. The aesthetics are unique but still unabashedly warhammer. It’s a weird choice of a box for a starter box because it has some more niche designs and things that will likely be less generally taken, but I like them getting out of their shell to add new designs to the roster.
Thundercloud: I agree that this might be a box we see people buy multiples of, because even knocking out the characters and rulebook, it’ll be about a 35-40% saving on RRP and people love dreadnoughts, need tons of tactical marines and the weapons platform would be a nice to have. It’s a more coherent box than the Age of Darkness one in terms of an army, and it should, on it’s own, give you a medium sized infantry force you can add a couple of tanks to and call done.
The Saturnine Terminators
Jelly: I love these egg-headed freaks so much. They’re walking tanks loaded up like Destroyers, armed to the teeth with plasma and disintegrators. They appeal most to my Death Guard desire and the fantasy of Terminators. I’ve always said that Termies should look like big, immobile tanks that can’t twist their necks and struggle to breath like a pug, and this looks just like that: a ‘roided walking “tactical” Dreadnought.
Super interesting they come in 3s as well, not 5 as per the normal index on 50mm bases. They’re making the Tartaros and Cataphractii make incredibly small. The weapons are disruption fists, heavy disintegrators and plasma bombards (which fire indirectly apparently!). The fists were specified to be always on the left, but the other guns go on both arms. They’re armed with some kind of thermal defractor field. I don’t know what that means.
Apparently those shoulder studs are teleport synchronisers, so I’m expecting built-in Deep Strike.
I’m also loving how well these take different colour schemes!
Max: I think these look like a really interesting take on the ‘Tactical Dreadnought Armour’ origins of Terminator armour. The design language is different but I think thoroughly interesting; Super ornate DAoT vibes, very chonky, smaller squad size, a potential firesupport role. I can see myself running some of the double plasma bombards ones as ‘Naufragia’ in my Dreadwing lists.
realSnice: I vastly prefer the look of the “gun and fist” load out. Overall I really enjoy the scale of these guys and am thrilled / pray that the other Terminators get upscaled as well (although not to the size of these guys). I’m especially excited to be able to run a Pride of the Legion style force with these guys in the mix, really adding that heavy support element to the force while maintaining a pure Terminator army.
Andrew_N: I had mixed feelings when I first saw them, but I have fully changed my mind. The more I look at them, the cooler they are. Love the look of the Saturnine Aquila, and they are just BEEFY. The lore of them being the original version of terminator armor is very cool, though with my Salamanders company being pre-Vulkan veterans specializing in heavy assault, I’ll need half a company of them, most likely. Also, thermal deflectors sounds very cool, they sound like a light version of the thermic weapon resistance that is currently part of the Salamanders legion trait (which tracks, with the suits being updated by Vulkan).
NotThatHenryC: How do they fit a Legionary in one of those Saturnine suits? I’m not massively sold on these as they seem pretty static and I like a bit more movement in my models. But then maybe that’s just a challenge for me to model them running about, which could be fun. One issue for me is that they make the standard boltgun-armed Legionary seem kind of weak and pathetic. I want my power-armoured marines to be the protagonists, not just scoring unit tokens. They might not be a perfect fit for my Raven Guard, though I suppose there’s always the option of another army…
Thundercloud: I think they’ll fit perfectly in a Rogue Trader esque army, which is exactly what I’m building, and will scale a lot better with the 10th ed Terminators than the increasingly tiddly Tartarus and Cataphractii kits, which I hope get a resize at some point. I liked the prototype Terminators these are based on when they came out, and had a couple in the long forgotten mists of time, so it’ll be great getting them again in modern plastic. 50mm based Terminators the size of an old metal dreadnought will be interesting moving them around the board. It’s an interesting bit of both early 40k design and lore coming back to us, though the egg-nators were never officially called Saturnine anywhere until now.
Loxi: I’m an Iron Hands player at heart. These things are thick as hell and look ready to shrug off a tank shot. It’s not a design for everyone, but I like the idea of these more archaic designs having a light being shone on them rather than just moving forward towards “newer” designs in the timeline. It’s a rich setting, and digging deeper into the period rather than tacking bits on either end is a good call. I think the only real mistake is that some armies won’t really find these thematically appealing, but you could say the same for the Spartan in the last box set, so I don’t think it’s the end of the world.
Saturnine Dreadnought
Max: Big boy. So big. Looks like the Telemon and the Leviathan had a large egg child and I’m here for it.
Jelly: Imagine being so important that you need a coffin this big. He’s a dreadnought version of the dreadnought version of a Terminator. I can’t express in words how big he is. My estimations based on scaling is that he’s 30-40% taller than a Leviathan. 100mm base! I love how curved he is, those should panels are going to make such gorgeous spots for freehand.
Similar weapons to the Saturnine Terminators, but just bigger. It doesn’t look like there is a fist or any arm weapon options, so maybe we’ll see an upgrade sprue soon. Are those point-defense nipple guns? Apparently, they’re Photon Incinerators and Concussion Resonators, both template weapons!
He was also described as being “almost the same power level as a knight”.
realSnice: Closer to a knight than a dreadnought I don’t know that this will be a regularly used unit for me. Like the Spartan of the AoD box I expect a lot of these to go unbuilt initially and the rules or how this fits into army list crafting will make or break it for me.
Andrew_N: Max got it right, it looks like a Telemon and a Leviathan had a baby. He is large and in charge! Dreadnought-scale Disruptor weapons look very cool as well. Curious what other weapons it has, or will eventually come with!
NotThatHenryC: This one is definitely a hit for me too, though again with the caveat about it looking a bit static. I wonder if there’ll be a version released with more weapons, perhaps including something for melee. The AoD Contemptor didn’t come with all possible options so maybe there is more to come here.
Thundercloud: I think it’s almost guaranteed that like the other three Heresy dreadnoughts, the Saturnine will get a variant weapons sprue, and looking at the sprue layout as shown on the stream, the arm weapons are an additional sprue that isn’t part of the body kit. It’s big and impressive and will look great as a centrepiece in an army that isn’t based around giant tanks or Primarchs. It’s also interesting to get a pre-Imperial dreadnought, as in the lore I think the Saturnine Tech Enclaves were building these before Unification, which might mean you can pop them in your Unification era army.
Loxi: The only thing I don’t love about this is that now it makes my leviathans look like sad little brothers, what did they do to deserve this? The new dread is fantastic, and my favorite of the saturnine designs because it perfectly encapsulates just how juiced up these beefcakes are supposed to be, with some absolutely gnarly weapons to back it up.
Araknae Quad Accelerator
Jelly: Top thing that no one asked for. It hurts that they’re adding even more anti-aircraft things to the game. I hope my beloved Storm Eagle gets to do something this edition without being killed by a spider-named walker. From the cinematic, it looks like it has an Atomantic Pavaise! The gun is a double-version of the Sicaran accelerator autocannon turret which is a lot of shots.
Once again, it’s HUGE. Massive compared to a Tarantula. (Which it looks like are also coming soon, in bolters, las, meltas and volkite!)
Max: As an unrepentant turret stan, I feel like this was included for me and me alone. I kind of hope we start seeing these and the new Tarantulas form the backbone of cool entrenched defender themed lists with the new breacher and rapier kits. They also mentioned it being able to be ‘dropped in’. Forward deploying these could be very funny.
realSnice: I run events, terrain is cool. At this point I don’t see myself taking this but again, rules will make or break how often this is found on the table.
Andrew_N: A double Sicaran turret as a fortification, AND an Automantic Pavaise? Maybe this means the Deredeo will eventually get one, as well…IYKYK. I didn’t care much about it at first glance but I have definitely changed my mind. I don’t know how much I will actually use it in games, since I don’t use many Fortifications too often, but it is very cool. Pleasantly surprised to see something like it in the box set.
NotThatHenryC: It’s a nice enough model but it’s definitely the thing I’m least excited about. I guess maybe planes will be awesome in 3.0 and all of us will want more anti-air, in which case I guess it’ll be great for all of us to have one of these.
Thundercloud: Immobile weapons platforms are certainly a choice, especially since we’re also getting Tarantulas, and it’ll be interesting to see how they balance these. The models nice, though it is huge and certainly seems like a densely packed table of terrain would really mess it up.
Loxi: I’m mostly interested to see the rules for this, I think there’s a universe in which these are super thematic and fun for a lot of scenarios and having one on hand to toss into a cool siege scenario will make for super fun games.
Mk II “Crusade” Armour Marines
Jelly: A fantastic silhouette and 40 in the box, designed as tacticals but also kitbashable with all the other sprues, just like every other HH Tacticals kit.
realSnice: LETS GO. I love Mk2 and can’t wait to get my hands all over these. I do wish by now that we would see a few other poses that allow for the different upgrade kits to work with them but I get the concept from a product design standpoint. This mark works for every legion (all the marks do but still) and I’m very excited to see different schemes from the community masterfully painted on these guys.
Andrew_N: 10/10, no notes. Mark II is the best armor mark, hands down. Seeing them in plastic is super exciting – I look forward to updating my units that still use the old Forge World sculpts. I am sure many folks will buy a second launch box for more of these, if nothing else. I always thought of MkII as the most “Heresy” of the marine armor marks, and the new plastics nail the “archaic soldiers of legend” vibe perfectly.
NotThatHenryC: Yes, these look great. In theory most Legionaries would have been in Mk2 at one point and it’s great to see them in plastic, with better proportions than the resin ones. Armies of these will look great, and will look much more distinctively 30k than Mk6 do.
Thundercloud: While I loved the Mk6 in the original release because they were the beakies of my youth, Mk2 is an actually ‘looks different to 40k marines’ mark of armour. The new Mk3 are not as much of a departure from them as the old Mk3, but it’s good to have ‘archaic’ looking marines stomping around the Horus Heresy in old armour, as oppose to everyone having brand spanking new Mk6 plate. It’s more thematic. I also want to do a Crusade era force, which Mk2 and Mk3 are perfect for, and Mk6 is not. I mean I eventually want Mk4, 5 and 7, all of which were in use during the heresy, but 3 marks are better than one.
Loxi: Mark II is a cool armor mark because it looks…clunky. I mean this in a good way though, it doesn’t look like the later Mk.6 designs that are clearly sleek, or the more refined looks of MKIII or MKIV, it looks like brutalist, chunky metal armor. They nailed this, and I’m really excited to see some cool units with these from all of the legions and everything in between.
Characters
Jelly: There’s going to be a lot of people moaning about how these characters ignore the “Heresy aesthetic” and I think those people can get in the bin. These look great. All thunder hammers should be bigger than people.
I also think the artificer one has a cyber-familiar (from the trailer with some kind of shield) and if that’s a general Centurion/Praetor option that’s kind of cooked. The armour looks like a variation of the axe-Praetor, with the same neck kit.
As with the Saturnine, he’s twice the size of a Tartaros lad. He’s armed with either a Saturnine Waraxe or a Concussion Hammer, as well as some kind of plasma gun/disintegrator power gauntlet thing. Apparently this guy is ‘approaching a Primarch in power level’ which I find real hard to believe.
realSnice: I’m not super keen on box set characters in general but I’m more optimistic about these than most. The proportions seem right and with so much unknown at this point about Saturnine armor, I’m particularly excited to see conversions of the big guy. THAT AXE IS AMAZING. I really cannot state how much I love this mini. The cyberskull on the MK2 character is also interesting and makes me wonder if that is optional wargear for all characters in 2.0.
Andrew_N: Both are excellent – the MkII praetor will be amazing for tons of conversions. He would be great as the basis for a bunch of different consuls, or for a power armored praetor. And the Saturnine Praetor is ENORMOUS – according to the preview he is as big as Vulkan (one of the bigger Primarchs). And the loadout with the casual axe carry looks so dang cool.
Loxi: The saturnine one is awesome, but I really want to hone in on the MKII fella, as I think he pretty much is a stone’s throw from many of the consuls that were slightly more involved to kitbash from the last set (Praevian, Forge Lord, Master of Signals, etc.). This will do wonders for both people needing a new praetor for a collection or wanting to bulk out their roster with more consuls with minimal effort.
Veterans and Disintegrators
Max: Another sleeper inclusion, it’s really interesting to see Veterans explicitly called out as an option in the box, utilising the 2x sprues (?!) of Disintegrator weapons. Hot stuff! Can’t wait to see how many of these squads survive their first shooting phase intact.
Jelly: As someone who runs a lot of Disintegrators already in their Dusk Raider list, entire sprues of killy lasers that turn people to dust is my dark and intimate need. I hope they don’t just overshine plasma weapons or those Dark Angels players might cry themselves to sleep.
I like seeing a mix of stuff on the sprue. Pistols, combis, rifles or even heavy ones! You can equip up to 20 Veterans with just the rifles. 36 total disintegrators!
NotThatHenryC: I’ve got a Seeker Sergeant with a Combi-disintegrator, who has killed an unreasonable number of enemy Praetors. It sounds pretty cool to have whole squads of them, except for Praetors.
Thundercloud: I’ll be maxing out on Disintegrators as I wanted them to make Crusade era marines. But giving marines more interesting weapons on the standard body can only be a good thing, even if the contents of the box as a whole mean everyone will be spending their whole time getting vapourised instead of having bolter rounds just ping off them.
Andrew_N: I have not used any Disintegrator weapons in my armies, but have been on the receiving end of them quite a bit – especially my Solar Auxilia. So I am excited (and terrified) to see more of these weapons on the battlefield. I am also pleasantly surprised about the specific mention of Veterans as being in this box – they are rock solid, and always fun, since they are so customizable.
Loxi: Vets have always been a staple of the game, but have always been on the sideline in terms of kit support, so real options that are laid out for newer players to access them besides “just grab the stuff they can use from the kits that have those options” is great, even if that partially still will be the case.
realSnice: No strong opinions here. Disintegrators are cool and its exciting that with the other reveals we now have enough plastic kit saturation to start bringing out the weird stuff.
Super Heavies
Jelly: Biggest of them all! It’s a fuckin plastic Fellblade in plastic. They put it next to a little Predator and the poor thing looked so dinky. Hopefully, we’ll see Glaives and Falchion in plastic soon too.
Andrew_N: BIG TANK. Seeing a Fellblade in plastic is a fantastic surprise. Keeping my hopes up to see its variants (looking at you Glaive) as well!
NotThatHenryC: Awesome to see the Fellblade. It’s a significant upgrade in detail over the resin one it seems, with new options for the sponsons and flamers (though apparently not lascannons) for the hull.
Thundercloud: Again I think it’s almost certain we’ve got a plastic Fellblade with the Turret on a separate sprue, and GW adding Glaive and Falchion sprues to the Fellblade hull. The same as we saw on the Cerastus Knights, Dreadnoughts, etc etc. It’s a very easy way to get more use out of the sprue.
realSnice: I want 3.
Third Edition Rule Changes
Jelly: Some bullet points:
- There seems to be a big set of rules on challenges.
- More flexible rules for army building.
- Tactical Statuses showing the affects of weapons. The box contains a load of markers for different Tactical Statuses. The basic ones seem to be Pinned, Suppressed, Stunned, Routed, which are linked to failing Characteristic Tests.
- Advanced characters are here. Necromunda-esque! Leadership, Cool, Willpower, Intelligence! Finally we can find out who is the Coolest legion. Checks are 2D6 roll under, like Leadership tests.
- Every weapon has been redesigned, gaining a damage characteristics are in. It also appears like melee weapons have Initiative and Attack Modifiers, replacing rules like Duellist’s Edge, Reach or Unwieldy. RIP Dreadnoughts??
The rulebook is 352 pages, with 100 pages of lore at the start of the book.
Liber Astartes and Hereticus are coming out on release day! As well as these Liber, we’re getting Liber Auxilia, Liber Mechanicum and Liber Questoris for Knights and Titans! Apparently the Talons of the Emperor and other factions will be getting day 1 Indexes too! Amazing news.
There was also a special book previewed for the Dropsite Massacre, with lots of lore, rules and mechanical issues. Mention of an ‘Augur Command and Control Squad’, which you can represent with a Rapier Crew.
Andrew_N: Advanced Characteristics? Tactical Status, aka Psychology? Willpower, Cool, and Intelligence, making a comeback? Damage statistics? Is it 2025, or 1989? I literally pulled out my copy of Rogue Trader to compare the newly announced rules changes to it, and see tons of similarities. Love the additional crunch – will make things much funner. I am a little worried about the learning curve, these are pretty substantial mechanical changes made to the game, but at least the community as a whole will be adjusting to the changes together. I am also happy to see that most of the armies seem to have either a Liber or a PDF ruleset at launch. Overall, it seems like the vibe of the third edition of Heresy is to take it’s reputation as a narrative game and to apply a narrative mindset to the mechanics of the game as well.
realSnice: I’m very excited for a specific Auxilia book as all of Liber Imperium felt ham fisted in 2.0. I look forward to the increased number of stats that a unit can have as giving more levers to tune, resulting in a more nuanced and in turn balanced game.
Max: Any rumours of this being a simplified edition has been silenced. Long live the jank!
Coming Soon!
Jelly: Some more stuff was teased to us, coming in a few months! Tarantulas with new guns, plastic Rapiers (with all 4 guns), MK2 Assault marines with chainaxes! A Breachers upgrade sprue (compatible with every armour mark)! Some teaser of some kind of cheeky volkite…
There was also a tease of some goodies for other factions. Some kind of “mechanicum thingy of some sort”, and a teaser of a Custodes spear of some kind that is supposedly in plastic!
It truly feels like Christmas. This feels like a rounding out of the range, and filling out a load of gaps we’re missing.
Andrew_N: Holy moly GW – Breachers? MkII Assault Marines? Rapiers? Volkite Tarantulas? The hobby gods answered our prayers – I cannot remember how long the community has been asking for all of these. Jelly has it right – this feels like Christmas in May to me!
NotThatHenryC: wow, that was a lot. It’s excellent that we’ll now have all sorts of troop options available, and in most armour marks too. I was a tiny bit worried how mk6 assault marines would look with mk2 tacticals but now that’s not going to happen – unless you want it to.
Thundercloud: With the Mk2 assault marines and breacher sprue it looks like you can do an all Mk2 army for your infantry, and theme your force around a Crusade fleet. One of the biggest complaints in the last edition was basic infantry getting ignored, so it’s amazing what another infantry kit, a couple of infantry modification sprues (Breacher, Disintegrator, the melee weapon sprue) and some infantry support artillery can do. In one fell swoop the various infantry options have been heavily filled in. Also drum magazine bolters are coming, and I really wanted those.
Max: MORE TURRETS! YES! Also was that a Cataphractii arm holding that Volkite charger?
realSnice: I have never been more excited to be a Heresy player. I enjoy how much the teased MK2 assault marine looks like the resin traitor champion. I will 100% be putting a jump pack on him to match. I also wonder if the shown chain axe means that it will become a wargear option for all legions. Epic.
What are you hoping for from 3rd edition?
Jelly: I hope that we get Indexes for weird factions sooner not later. As someone with armies of Demons and Militia, and aspirations of a Blackshield project, I don’t wanna be waiting 2 years for my full rules! Until we know the plan and release schedule for the rest of army lists, it makes planning for and running events a nightmare.
Also, I really want some approachable rules for “Small Heresy”. Fan formats like Civil War and Centurion are becoming real popular as onboarding tools and ways to do a neat hobby project, but some official support from GW would be fantastic. The existing small points option is Zone Mortalis, but the terrain gives it a massive barrier to entry.
If some don’t exist, Max and I might just have to write them, which will be hard work and I am lazy.
Max: Weirdly, I’m hoping the game is still a complete mess. No-one’s here to play 10th edition 40K with different models, so with even more characteristics, weapon stats and challenge sub-phases(?) previewed I’m glad that the jank is still alive and well. I do hope the studio has also taken on some of the key gripes about Heresy 2.0 and tried to refine them in a non knee jerk way; like, it would really suck if Dreadnoughts are just terrible this edition, instead of being just toned down a little bit (hopefully a Damage stat does that?). In the same vein I hope Vehicles (especially fliers) have more survivability and see more action on the tabletop and aren’t, you know, busted.
Based on the preview it looks like battle scales might be back so I’m hopeful there’s small format support; it’s a great way to onboard new players into the jank and Heresy could do with an official one.
All in all I’m sure there’s going to be some absolute bonkers stuff in this edition that we’re going to have to grapple with as a community, but I hope that we all remember that whilst we all want this game to be fun and engaging, that we’re not here because Heresy is inherently a ‘good’ game. We’re here because of the theming, the lore, the models, the insane level of hobby in the community and the sheer stupid customisation you have in list building. If the rules are bad, the community will do what it did last time and either ignore it, house rule it or call it ‘WAAC’ and honestly, that’s the thing I hope sticks around most of all. That and a Lascannon nerf.
realSnice: If I could describe Heresy 2.0 succinctly, it would be an edition of haves or have nots.
The most blatant being Contemptor Dreads and Heavy Support Squads with 2 options that you saw everywhere on the tabletop. Similarly, Tactical Support Squads, Breachers, Scouts, and most vehicles simply didn’t get their time in the sun because the rules made them such an inferior option. I realize the community loves to tout Horus Heresy as a “Narrative” game and I agree, but that does not remove a fundamental need for some semblance of balance to let the narrative thrive. When the rules of the system make it so incentivized to take one option or another, then the variety and desire for one to make an army in their own vision greatly decreases. It shouldn’t feel so bad to bring units or wargear that excite one’s hobby while resulting in a feelsbad on the table. While I do echo my peers here in wanting the game to be wild and interesting, I do want more thoughtful wargear pricing and unit balance applied to the entire edition that encourages more variety on the tabletop. This does not require a “streamlined” system and what we’ve seen today makes it clear to me that that will it be the case, but I hope it’s one that has been thoroughly tested and excites players to get creative without sacrificing playability. Finally, I hope reactions remain but are toned down, this would help keep both players engaged during the entire game while allowing for smoother games at lower points. Finally, I’m also thrilled to see changes to army building and an Arcane Journal style campaign book which is the ideal format for this style of content in my opinion.
Andrew_N: I have played Heresy for a decade now, and I feel like my biggest concern for this edition was how much change a new edition brings. I am excited for the new mechanics – the return of the additional characteristics from Rogue Trader/Necromunda are a welcome additional layer of crunch that will make the game more tactical and reactive. I am a little apprehensive about the seeming removal of FOC-style army composition, as I feel this might incentivize folks to really lean into some rather tilted army builds, but I cant pass judgement until I have the rules in hand. I am interested in the implications though – perhaps we will see more themed army lists (recon/destroyer/breacher companies come to mind). I am also a big fan of the Journal Tactica campaign books being used as game supplements, like Arcane Journals for Old World. I hope we see smaller game formats like Zone Mortalis, or something like Centurion or Civil War, in the new edition as well. Small game formats make onboarding folks into the game a lot easier than expecting them to have a 3000 point army before they are game-ready.
My only major concern is actually with some of the stuff they didn’t mention in the preview – Legacies of the Age of Darkness and Exemplary Battles units and army lists. I am thrilled that most of the main factions have a Liber (or in the case of Talons, a PDF) at launch, but as someone that owns a militia army, and has plenty of Legacies units in my Astartes and Solar Auxilia armies, I hope these rarer units and armies make the transition into this edition when those rules are released. I know GW mentioned “legacy factions and units” will eventually be getting rules in their post-announcement FAQ, but I am curious what the substance of those rules will be. That said, overall I am excited for what the new edition brings. From what we saw today, I think that the studio has listened to the community and has worked to implement those changes into the game itself.
NotThatHenryC: I’m not really sure what I want rules-wise. When reviewing rules it’s easy to get caught up in the things that don’t quite work in Heresy or the lack of balance, but on the tabletop it probably doesn’t matter all that much and people enjoy this edition. If the game still lets people do the hobby they want and then play games with the result, cool. There are lots of people now who are happy to play something like a Militia list with a negligible chance of victory and all power to them. Like many players, I’ve done quite a lot of converting to make weird stuff that GW doesn’t produce so I hope we can all still use our toys.
The changes they’ve mentioned so far sound good. A damage stat on weapons is great news, except if you’re interred in a dreadnought. It’ll be very interesting to see if the new power balance shifts between dreadnoughts and vehicles now.
As for the reintroduced 1st edition stats, it’s cool but it would be nice to see the stats of someone who doesn’t just have 7s across the board. I wonder how often we’ll see these stats used in games.
Loxi: I don’t want to drive home too many points others have mentioned, but as a general statement about the game: I think it was in dire need of a bit of cleanup. While adding more granularity in stats might seem like it’s doing the opposite, I think it provides a ton of space for them to make things way more clear for the player and have much less room for rules interpretation. This is one of the things the game needed the most in my opinion, so we’ll have to see how it’s executed.
Aside from that, list construction is such a huge part of this game that I think that getting a shakeup is a good thing, and more freedom in terms of that might lead to some really awesome armies that just were not possible before. I wouldn’t really fret if we lost rites of war but just were opened up to more list building possibilities as a baseline. I think Line/scoring units were also a bit polarizing as they were very tricky to balance around, with some powerful units having/lacking line and that determined a lot of their viability. I do hope they take some notes from some of the other games and give some of these battleline units traits and abilities that make them better at objective play while still allowing other things to actually interact with the missions. I do quite like IM as a stat, I think that adds a lot more interesting depth to the initiative system rather than it being “you interact with this or you’re unwieldy and just don’t.”
Everything else is very “wait and see” for me, but I think these are all things that are steps in the right direction for the game: keep the depth and customization we all love, but make things more clear and approachable.
Thundercloud: Similarly I’m a bit wait and see. The models look great, and I’ll find a use for them whether I play heresy or not. I think Heresy needed both a clean up of the rules and a balance pass (looking at you dreadnoughts) but I also think taking the whole thing back to first principles and redesigning the system from the ground up to do what GW want it to do would be the best route to take, as oppose to taking the 3rd-5th ed 40k rules and trying to make them fit. It’s clear that GW want to make morale meaningful in 30k, whether troops break or are pinned and I would be interested to see how they do it, considering how up and down the attempts to model morale have been in the last 35 years.
In an ideal world they’d build a game engine that does what they want from the ground up, but I say that as someone who isn’t nostalgic for 3rd-5th ed because I started earlier. I can see the game creeping closer to 10th/11th for the core rules because things like damage value for weapons make sense to solve some of the issues with 3rd-5th.
30k needs to be viable at smaller game sizes, because otherwise the thing any new player does is buy £300 of stuff and go away and paint it for at least six months, and that doesn’t get people in. I really hope GW have given this some thought, and Zone Mortalis is back with 500-1000 point games and you can have fun with less than 30 painted miniatures.
I’m open minded. If it’s a good system I’ll play it, if it isn’t I’ll paint the models and use them in 10th/11th in Rogue Trader style forces. The Saturnine Terminator captain certainly looks like the sort of guy I’d like leading my Boarding Action force.
Have any questions or feedback? Drop us a note in the comments below or email us at contact@goonhammer.com. Want articles like this linked in your inbox every Monday morning? Sign up for our newsletter. And don’t forget that you can support us on Patreon for backer rewards like early video content, Administratum access, an ad-free experience on our website and more.
