It’s finally† here, and it’s bigger than Ben Hur at a whopping 207 pages: The Legacies of the Age of Darkness PDF. The Legacies PDF is where one can find profiles for any Expanded units*, which used to have rules in days past and have been updated to support the current edition (as was the case for the second edition as well).
† *Checks notes* One week after release and a business day after initially promised.
* Expanded Units being models which are not considered the mainstay of the range – ie don’t have official models or models that aren’t being sold anymore such as the Caestus Assault Ram.
Let’s start with the elephant in the room.
How do you feel about a tome-worthy Legacies document, adding so many things “back” in?
realSnice: I’m thrilled. I certainly have not loved the community drama these past few weeks around wargear, PDF releases, and everything else. The Heresy Community loves choice, even when half of those choices are terrible and the other half are overpowered. But at a high level, this doc looks a lot more consistent than what we had in 2.0. It’s not perfect, but it’s good. With the Libers in hand and the pdf alongside, I’m ready to dive into 3.0.
Bair: Look, it was inevitable. I’m not a huge fan of legacy documents as a thing because I think it makes stuff a bit less accessible for people that are not chronically online and might not be aware of it. That said this is a 200 page document which is about a whole extra Liber when it comes to stuff and options. It’s fine that this exists, I don’t think it was necessary.
Max: Generally speaking, I like that there’s more options. Losing rules for your models sucks, so seeing support for all the strange retro and kitbashed kits people want to use in this game is always going to be good. But the implementation feels a bit bizarre. Some units have regained all their previous wargear choices (and more!), but others are still weirdly restricted? I dunno. It might be controversial but I think there’s too much in here, or rather, too much here that could have just been in the Libers. It sort of smacks of a very muddled (or deeply unconfident) design philosophy.
Prince: I’m always a fan of more options and customisability, even if it’s slightly more expensive. And one of my biggest gripes with third has been the stripping back of character. So a document that dramatically restores the unit and equipment roster, whilst also adding the odd new unit, is a benefit to players in my book.
Andrew_N: I am very happy with the Legacies document, and I am glad that a lot of otherwise-missing units and options have returned. Is this everything? No. But it is ALOT. And for a modern GW game going through an edition change, PDF rules that are considered equal with the main books to allow backwards-compatibility is a huge perk, one that I and the rest of the Heresy community sometimes forget, I think. Not even The Old World gives equal weight to PDF and book rules.
Meltabombed: It’s finally here and with even more choices than we had last edition. (Hello? Veteran Heavy Support Squads? Veteran Breachers?) Looking forward to seeing what changes I can make to my lists/armies with it.
Variance Hammer Eric: Over the moon. Some genuinely new options, the few awkward “What am I going to do with this guy” in my army solved, etc. I was happy with Heresy 3.0 before, and I’m very happy now.
NotThatHenryC: This is kind of a necessary document that fixes the mistake of removing options in the first place. So I guess it’s good that they did that, though it’s bad that they needed to. Of course that complaint only applies to the character and equipment options, which always should have been in the Libers. It’s cool to have the rest of the legacy units like Boxnaughts back and those seem to have been handled well.
Do you expect events and pick up games to allow the use of Legacy options and units?
Bair: Yes.
If there’s one thing that the Heresy community as a whole can agree on is that the game is “narrative” regardless of what that will actually mean to each individual. It’s incredibly rare to see any sort of “competitive” event of Heresy and if those happen and exist then maybe they won’t allow these. Maybe. If anyone TOs one of those leave a comment or write in cause I’m dead curious actually. As well as any other event organisers that are planning to ignore these.
Max: Yeah. Go ham. Make yourself an Outrider ForgeLord. There’s probably one or two absolutely cracked things in this doc that will take time to resolve, but Heresy has always had a ‘at your own discretion’ vibe around comp so I wouldn’t be worried.
realSnice: Of course.
Prince: As a community we’re not competitive, so I genuinely can’t see a good reason to deny the use of legacies. I certainly won’t be.
Andrew_N: I don’t think I have ever seen them omitted, either at events I have attended, or at events I ran/helped run, and I don’t see that being an issue in the future. I feel like that would be a hard sell, since the rules writers explicitly mention in each rulebook that these rules, despite being considered “Expanded”, are on equal footing with the Core rules in the books.
JellyMuppet: Nerds should let other nerds play with their toys.
Meltabombed: “Legacy” doesn’t mean the same thing to Heresy that it does for other GW games in that…nobody really cares. Rather than seeing this document as a separate sandbox from the “published” materials that may or may not be played in, Heresy players have always viewed, and will continue to view, such documents as expansions of the sandbox. My friends and I will, of course, continue to sit in said sandbox and throw cat turds at each other.
Variance Hammer Eric: I wouldn’t attend an event that didn’t, and I don’t expect that to be something that limits my choices. Heresy Event Organizers and People Who Like Heresy Options strike me as a venn diagram that’s actually just a circle.
NotThatHenryC: Yes, and they should. These units are fine. Let people play with their toys.
What units/options are stand-outs to you or that you’re excited about or don’t quite work as expected?
realSnice: The Tartaros Siege Squad is s-s-s-spicy. Allowing my Imperial Fists to rock a squad of Reaper Autocannons, hitting on 2’s and scoring Vanguard (3). Destroyers look really, really fun as well.
Max: Jetbike Command Squads seem sick. Castra Ferrums stay winning. I might also finish making my Destroyers now. That said I am sad that Firewing Engimatus Cabals are a total joke now though (an Elite unit with an AP4 power weapon? Come on guys).
Prince: The drop in destroyer points just makes me want to have more for sure. But certainly the options available have re-ignited the desire to do my Evocatii force. With Delegatus unlocking an Apex slot, I can now have Suzerain and Veteran assaults/breachers in the same army! My Ofanim court for my IX being entirely Champion type is very juicy too.
There are a few ‘nerfs’ that I half expected, sunkillers losing most of their special rules for example, or Rylanor/Telemechrus losing their extra WS/BS, but we’ll ride it out.
Andrew_N: I am overall pretty happy with the rules as presented. There are some head scratchers, but I don’t see anything that I would consider auto-takes, or never-takes. The Delegatus does stand out as pretty cool – having a command slot that can unlock Apex detachments is a neat feature, even if killing one grants Slay the Warlord. All flavors of Veterans shown are also very cool – Veteran Breachers would be perfect for scoring Vanguard points in ZM games, when we get those rules. The Salamanders Adherents look like a fun sleeper hit with their Creed of Flame special rule.
For my Solar Auxilia, though, I am most excited for the Navigator and Cyclops. Navigators weren’t that great in the prior editions, and while not amazing their template psychic power might actually make them an option to take in games again! Cyclops actually look like alot of fun – the fact they blow up on a charge, regardless of whether they successfully make that charge or not, seems like too much fun, and might make assault armies think twice about blindly charging Auxilia gunlines!
JellyMuppet: Andrew understates it a lot in my book! The Delagatus is the key to unlocking a lot of Rites of War we’ve lost out the new edition. Having access to a second Apex Detachment is well worth it for the Slay the Warlord points, and lets you seriously spam your Retinues or Legion Elite units. For example, it allows something akin to Pride of the Legion list with tons of Vets or banners, or taking alongside a bunch of Praetorian Command Squads on Jetbikes or Bikes for more flexibility in the spam army, or adding a lot of Legion Specific Elite units. They can also be taken in allied detachments, cheekily allowing Apex Detachments in your allies. The lovely Mortificator also adds a Fury of the Ancients multi War Engine detachment, so its good we got that back!
I’m learning to love the way 3e units are built, and how special rules like Line, Vanguard or Expendable alter the way that they sit within the ecosystem. I am loving how Terminators and Destroyers now feel so very difficult to Assault and Tactical Marines, and how some units are allowed additional combat power because they don’t interact with scoring. This is definitely the best feeling edition of the game for stuff like Destroyers in terms of realising player fantasy.
Meltabombed: something I think people may sleep on is the addition of the Primus Medicae as a way to include apothecaries in your non-Infantry units. Specifically, only being able to take him with a jump pack instead of a regular apothecary may not be as big of a loss as it first appears. Taking him unlocks another detachment and you can easily fit him into a primary detachment rather than needing to waste a detachment or Logistical Benefit on a regular apothecary. In addition, he has higher base characteristics than the regular apothecary and has the 2+/5++ of an officer, so he will help the jump unit feel more survivable. I also really like the veteran breachers that I discuss more below and will definitely be converting a unit up! Lastly the re-introduction of legion wargear is a really nice addition, and even if players don’t feel they are auto-includes, giving the flavorful choice will ease a lot of bruised prides in the Heresy community.
Variance Hammer Eric: The Delegatus is an interesting one, especially for smaller games of Heresy (the type nearest and dearest to my heart). The Imperial Fist player in me is excited about Veteran Breachers as Yet Another Unit With Shields option, and I like that, having lost ubiquitous Solarite Power Gauntlets in Terminator squads of various types, there is a distinct niche for Huscarls alongside their regular brethren.
NotThatHenryC: I’m impressed generally with how all of these units have been handled. These mostly look like proper units that are well worth using in game, apparently without too many that are seriously broken. They’ve done the work to make the legacy stuff interesting and worthwhile, rather than just a vanity project. But at the same time new players probably won’t feel that they can’t win without converting a bunch of stuff. Nicely done.
Others have mentioned the Delegatus as a big deal. There are some other Consul changes, like being able to give your Librarian a Jump Pack to send a Biomancer with your assault guys or Deep Strike things with the Warmonger that could be impactful too. I really like how they’ve done Destroyers this time too, with Firestorm finally making the unit work.
Having said that, it’s now odd that Destroyers have Bitter Duty but Moritats don’t. The fluff, including now, has always been that they hung out together. Neither unit is really spoiled by this but it’s an odd omission. It’s also kind of silly now to have fixed equipment for people like the Siege Breaker, who has to have a Thunder Hammer, like it’s a badge of office, even if he’s riding on a jetbike. Why lock equipment to a model if you aren’t using that model?
The Auxilia stuff is interesting in good and bad ways. A downside is that none of it works with the Tercio system in the new edition, as all those Detachments call out specific units. On the other hand, bringing back the Aurox makes a big difference to moving smaller units around the board. The super-heavies are interesting too. The Baneblade is excellent with a 7” AP3 blast and the Shadowsword almost automatically kills big tanks. The Macharius, which is named after a 40k character and isn’t sold any more, is very cheap for a super-heavy, meaning you could potentially take two Lords of War in games of 2500 points and up. They just wouldn’t be very good.
The whole fortification section is bizarre to me. Fortifications can be much tougher than armoured vehicles because they don’t have to move around, so weight is irrelevant and you can make them out of concrete. How does a fortification have armour 11 or 12? These things are a liability in-game and make no sense.
Are there any omissions in there that you were expecting or hoping to see?
realSnice: I’m sad to see that jump pack Rampagers are missing here but overall, there is very little that I wanted to have in this book that I don’t have access to now. I’m actually more surprised by how much choice has been given back to units than anything else.
JellyMuppet: I’m slightly sad that the mounted or terminator characters don’t sometimes have slightly different units or rules to reflect their personalities like in 40k, but that’s a slightly hot take in the 40k scene. Also, I know it’s not an “omission” as such but I’m furious that Excindios are 0-1 and the Excindio Battle Automata Spam army that Max and I always wanted to do for doubles is now cooked.
Max: A good few named characters that have fallen by the wayside. The doc is already way too long to include everything, but I know a good few Dark Angels players that went out of their way to kitbash Farith Redloss, so that sort of stings to see.
Prince: There’s a few things there was a smidge of hope for, such as the option for jump packs on apothecaries, or to stick a boarding shield on a herald. But they were small hopes, as it’s clear that is not the direction GW is set upon generally.
Soggy: I’m guessing Jaghatai will be stuck on foot for the foreseeable future. It’s a conversion I’ve been meaning to do for some time and feel for those who have gone to the effort of converting him up. I suppose that he would be a monster with his high speed and initiative to avoid overwatch. For now I will lie to myself and say that there’s a chance it could come in a future journal supplement, because it isn’t present here
Andrew_N: Veletaris Support Sections with Rotor Cannons are still gone – you can proxy them by taking a Companion section (also in the document) with rotor cannons (a new option to them), but they don’t work together with the existing Veletaris special rules or detachments. Not too surprised, since it does seem like the general rule of thumb is only rules with models (current or former) were going to be featured, but I’m still keeping hope we may see them return whenever support sections make a return in plastic. Also, pour one out for the Macharius Omega.
Meltabombed: It’s still a bit disappointing to see that fully customizable loadouts have not returned for consuls. I know a lot of people were crossing their fingers that their custom built and converted characters would still be usable as-is, and the lack of a quick blurb saying something to the effect of “‘…or any item from the Legion Officer Wargear list’ may be added to any Command Entry” at the top of the document is a huge miss for me. It would have cost them nothing to put that in here and it would have created a lot of good-will with the community. I do think that is something we could see in the future as this PDF is a living document, and that is something that could easily be added in future versions. I for one will not be snapping any hands off anybody.
Variance Hammer Eric: I would adore some way to take non-Space Marine fliers in a Space Marine army without needing allies to represent Imperial Navy support. But this is the niche ask of a man who, quite by accident, has found himself in possession of three Marauder Bombers.
NotThatHenryC: What happened to the Sisters of Silence? To be honest I don’t know if they’ll be missed all that much as the second edition army list contained a load of stuff there were no models for, and apparently no intention ever to make them. But why do that in the first place? This faction has just been treated weirdly badly and anyone who put effort into them in second edition probably feels a bit annoyed. I know I do.
Credit – @__aodhan__ and @le_swordfish
Is there anything here that you’re going to build and paint now?
realSnice: Tartaros Siege Squad, Destroyers, Huscarls. Honestly a lot of stuff for a lot of armies.
JellyMuppet: Now I know what they can take, more destroyers with all their glitzy weapons, alongside a possible Tartaros Siege Squad with Heavy Flamers and a Warmonger for some old fashioned Vanguard (3) spice.
Bair: Absolutely not. There’s plenty that I want to work on and do that’s just in the “core” books as it is and with there being even the slightest chance that these disappear next edition I just have no drive to go out of my way to convert and make things. Maybe, at most, I’ll do a Baneblade cause that’s just a fun kit anyways (after you get past building the tracks). Even then, when it seems like Falchions and the like might be coming to plastic I’d rather just have one of those instead.
Prince: My Ultras probably. Definitely going to grab some veteran breachers for them, and maybe some Fulmentarus too… even if they’re costly. Dammit I’d just settled on doing Mechanicum too.
Andrew_N: I do have a half-built Land Raider Achilles for my Salamanders I was sitting on until these rules came out. I will likely finish that soon enough to use it for a command squad transport.
Meltabombed: Absolutely! Veteran Breachers (i.e. breachers with melee weapons) have been something I have wanted for my Blood Angels for a long time and I will definitely be converting some up, especially with the new Breacher upgrade set on the horizon! I think this unit was also a huge salve for the folks that spent the time converting their volkite charger breachers up last edition. I already had a Numerologist built for last edition and I’m glad that he will still get to see play as-is.
Variance Hammer Eric: Veteran Breachers, most definitely. I need the “Stab a guy while holding a shield” variety pack. Some of the HQ options are extremely tempting as well. But realistically, I need to get some games under my belt first.
NotThatHenryC: I might do some Chieftains for the Sons of Horus army I’m thinking of making. To be honest I’m not quite sure how I’d represent people with Boarding shields,
Banestrike bolters and Power fists, but maybe. I’d also definitely be up for doing some Destroyers, or perhaps one of the 217 different Legion-specific versions of them that we now have. I’m still undecided on what Legion to make from my Saturnine stuff and to be honest this hasn’t helped my decision.
Overall, how do you feel about the Legacies PDF, the units which have been given Expanded status, and what it means for the future of the game?
realSnice: This is a tough one. Broadly speaking, I can understand the separation of “actual models for sale” and “conversions” from being in two different distribution formats. But given all the controversy the past couple weeks, wouldn’t have been so much easier to communicate the nature of this document a little more openly? Overall though I’m glad that conversions, legacy models, and the “hobby” side of this hobby is being supported. As someone who entered this hobby through the books and then the painting and only afterwards, the gaming, I want to be able to use my special-supercustom-1337-snowflake models.
Bair: I think I’ve been pretty clear that I’m not a fan of these, for any game. It creates a weird divide between the “real” models/units/options and the “extra” ones. Even when they might not be so distant from each other like they often are for other systems like 40k or AoS it can be awkward in a real-life setting if one person is bringing “the good Legacy unit” to a game. I think it’s fine and good that people can just use stuff they’ve made in the past though.
One better answer could be: Just make an app like 40k or AoS has. Have one place where all the rules exist together and I don’t have to carry a Liber book and Rulebook to games. That’s the ideal. Won’t happen probably but that is, actually, the best answer.
As above from realSnice it could have been nicer to know what to expect but I gotta say the backlash from the community was stirred up from leaks for a game that wasn’t even on pre-order yet and the online vitriol just got worse during the pre-order period. Made me real glad to have backed out of most online spaces and focused on what actually matters: talking to the people that I will actually play games with instead. Refreshing, really.
Prince: Agreeing with the guys above, I would have much preferred this all have been baked into the actual core books and game. As we saw in second, the legacies document has a tendency to be costed/built differently (a cynic would say intentionally so), so seeing another edition with a similar situation certainly isn’t perfect. That being said, if this is the evil necessary to stop the traditional GW practice of just annihilating units with an edition change, then so be it. I spent all of 5th – 7th ed playing with nothing but Forgeworld pdfs and being accused of being ‘overpowered’, I’ll live.
JellyMuppet: I disagree with the others: I’d always rather confuse new players than overwhelm them, and this is the way to do it. 207 is a lot of pages to have to add across the five books and I’m happy this stuff is staying online. The physical build is demanding enough as it is with the extra weight.
Soggy: It’s TYOOL 2025, please Games Workshop, I beg you to give us an official Heresy List building app as part of WH+ like you do for 40K and AoS. I do not want to be carting around a million books and printouts to clarify the corrections in said physical books alongside hundreds of pages of supplemental profiles to run an event.
Andrew_N: I agree with Jelly, I would rather those rules be there than not. Having rules scattered across multiple books, and now online, is not ideal, but I do believe that it is a rather straightforward hurdle to overcome when learning a new game. That said, I wish all or most of this had been in the Libers to begin with, though.
My main concern is how we got this document released. GW really fumbled the ball when they didn’t communicate the changes to army rosters after the Libers were leaked (through no fault of their own). And now certain loud elements of the Heresy community have it in their minds that they are the sole reason certain units or options were returned to the game after leading a meltdown over missing units and options. If anything, the size of the Legacies PDF makes me think this was planned well in advance, but GW just couldn’t communicate the changes, and the community responded very poorly to bad information about the same changes. This is the kind of cyclical and abusive hobby relationship I would hope to avoid going forward.
Meltabombed: I am glad this PDF has finally released, if for nothing else than just for the sake of my own mental health. Maybe all the “True Heresy Fans™” out there will actually play a game now.
Variance Hammer Eric: I’m glad the PDF is out, mainly so the community can stop contributing to Heresy’s…shall we call it a reputational problem? I also think that I prefer it in a PDF form like this – I’m trying to imagine how unmanageable the already large main rulebook would be, and the experience of my club trying to get into Heresy 2.0 was that a lot of people were excited, and then got bogged down in special units that were out of stock, or needed $300 worth of converting, and just wandered back to 40K. The mainline book being accessible, with a slew of expanded options via this PDF and journals strikes me as a good balance.
NotThatHenryC: I think it’s pretty good. Players now have a lot of freedom to customise their armies and have fun playing games with the models they’ve made. There don’t seem to be any obvious errors, like we got last time with Fulmentarus, and neither do many units look like traps. The PDF does its job very well.
I think this leaves the game in a good place, though following a rough few weeks that have caused a bit more angst than was needed. Now we can use pretty much all of our toys from the last edition, with rules that are mostly an improvement. It’s a solid foundation that GW can expand from with Campaign Journals, perhaps some more stuff on individual Legions and so on.
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