Ruleshammer Horus Heresy: Q&A August 2022

Welcome to a special edition of Ruleshammer! Today we’re covering some more questions submitted by you, the readers, and our patrons on the Goonhammer Discord specifically about Warhammer: the Horus Heresy 2nd Edition.

Table of Contents

Can I use Krak Grenades to attack Land Speeders and Armigers?

As of the current rules, you can’t. Krak Grenades have a very specific list of unit types they can be used on and as Speeders are cavalry (not on the list) and Armigers are… Armigers (also not on the list) they can’t be used on them. This seems an oversight and we hope this gets amended in the future.

Are Primarchs affected by Unwieldy since they cannot have their stats modified?

Yes they are. Unwieldy means you act in Initiative step 1, not that your stat is set to one.

Do Emperors Children units hit at Initiative Step 2 with Unwieldy weapons?

Yes, but because the Flawless Execution rules doesn’t modify the initiative stat, but instead means you fight at one higher after all other modifiers or rules (including Unwieldy).

Can the Evade reaction be used by vehicles?

Yes, absolutely – though currently read as written it does nothing, because Shrouded doesn’t do anything for Vehicles (who don’t lose wounds). However the intent is pretty clear – roll the mitigation for hull points lost. Hopefully it gets cleared up in an official FAQ.

Do Imperial Fists hit on a 5+ with Snap Shots if using auto or bolt weapons?

They do! Snap Shots alter your Ballistic Skill (to 1) while Discipline and Resolve affects the to hit roll meaning that the ban on rules affecting Ballistic Skill are ignored.

Imperial Fists Veteran Tactical Squad with Rhino
Imperial Fists Veteran Tactical Squad with Rhino. Credit: Jack Hunter

Do my terminators with Inexorable get to ignore the penalties from the Telepathic Hallucinations psychic weapon when making the Pinning test?

No – Telepathic Hallucinations doesn’t impose penalties on Leadership, it affects the roll itself.

When exactly do I declare shooting reactions?

I don’t know. They happen after “all To HIt and To Wound rolls, and Armour Saves are made, but before any Damage Mitigation rolls are made or casualties removed”. The issue is that wounds are allocated from the wound pool one at a time so… What does this trigger? The first time an armour save has been made? If not then when, because casualties will have been removed. And if you make all the saves and allocate wounds across models and then make damage mitigation rolls and retroactively prevent some of those wounds, on multi wound models what happens? Can you spread the wounds remaining across models? Remove the maximum number? It’s entirely unclear. This really needs to be cleared up but for now I’m declaring these reactions when the Shooting Attack is declared, and then resolving return fire after all saves including damage mitigation but before causalities are removed, and resolving evade as part of the shooting attack normally. This seems a decent way of doing it, but I’ll admit I’m a bit stumped on this one – answers on a postcard (or in the comments).

Do my legion specific bolters work with Fury of the Legion?

Fury of the Legion doesn’t apply to legion-specific bolt weapons (otherwise Iron Warriors wouldn’t need a special rule from their Rite of War to use theirs).

Can I mount bayonets on them?

Read as written, no: all the places you can take them make a bolter (specifically) conditional. But this is extremely silly and should be ignored. Tell people I said you could.

Can you charge out of a transport with the Assault Vehicle rule the turn it arrives from Reserves?

Not if you’re coming in from standard reserves, because units coming in from reserve cannot charge the turn they do, and the unit embarked is still coming onto the table that turn. You can as part of a Deep Strike Assault or Flanking Assault though (or another kind of special reserves that permits assaults on the turn you arrive onto the table).

The Deathwing rule gives me a +1 to hit with any close combat weapon modelled as a sword. So can I model a sword, say it’s a Power Fist and get a +1?

No. Close Combat Weapon is a specific profile which models get if they have no other weapons to fight in assault with. It’s not all weapons you fight in close combat with. You cheeky bastard.

Can I put Apothecaries in a Retinue?

No. Retinues are part of the same unit at the Independent Character they’re chosen from, and not just upon deployment – they’re the same unit as soon as you pick them in your list. Apothecaries cannot join units with models with the Independent Character rule.

Ultramarine Apothecary Credit: paulminiatures

Do I need to actually spend 1000 points to be eligible to select a Praetor in my list, or do I just need to be playing a game with a minimum of 1000 points limit?

Read as written you need to actually spend all 1000 points, but anyone who insists on this isn’t worth playing with, frankly. To be clear this doesn’t mean that you can include a praetor in a list under 1000 points, just that if you’re playing 1000 points but your final list comes out at 998 points your opponent shouldn’t smugly tell you that you can’t bring one.

Can a character with infiltrate have a retinue?

There are only a couple of instances where this could come up and it’s not 100% clear. It seems likely the answer is no, but because the character isn’t joining the unit, they’re just part of it, it’s really messy as to what the real answer is. This could do with an official FAQ answer. It’s been helpfully pointed out that the wording on this has actually been slightly updated in the epub clearing this up. They can! Great news for my dumb dumb Alpha Legion plans.

Can you have Independent Characters join units granted by the Rewards of Treachery special rule at deployment when using the Coils of Hydra Rite of War?

No – they’re not granted by the rule, so cannot begin play on the table.

30k Alpha Legion / Imperial Fists Templar Brethren. Credit: Magos Sockbert
30k Alpha Legion / Imperial Fists Templar Brethren. Credit: Magos Sockbert

Can Zardu Layak leave his unit of Blade-Slaves during the game? Can they, together, join another unit at any point? Can they get into a transport with another unit?

The answer here seems overall to be “yes”, but again it’s messy and unclear and needs a good look at. This is a unit composed of one model with the Independent Character rule (Zardu) and others that do not have it (the Blade-Slaves). There’s no specific rule barring him leaving so he probably can, but they have to deploy together. However, this is uncertain and could certainly benefit from an official ruling.

How do I allocate wounds in a unit where more than one model is a character (or they all are)?

When you allocate a wound from your wound pool you must do so to a model that has already suffered a wound unless that model is a character. However you do this at the start of allocation of a shooting attack, when you’ve assembled a wound pool. Only when that model is removed from play do you choose a new model.

Imagine if you have a unit of five models, each with two wounds and each with the Character type. They are the target of a shooting attack. You pick a model to allocate the wounds from the wound pool to and roll to save each wound in turn. Once that first model has lost a wound, if there are still wounds in the wound pool, you must continue to allocate wounds to that model. However, if that model is removed from play (killed) then you choose a different model to allocate wounds to.

If a model, after all wounds are allocated from the pool, is left with a single wound remaining and then the unit is the target of another shooting attack you may choose any model to allocate wounds too, and do not have to allocate them to the wounded one. Obviously if the model didn’t have the Character type you would have to select them at the start of this new shooting attack.

Let’s say I have a line of ten marines, of which five are clearly visible, four are completely hidden behind a wall, and one is partially hidden on the corner of the wall. Does only that one guy get a cover save? Do I need to roll and assign every shot one at a time because he has an extra save?

Not quite. You opponent would roll and resolve all the attacks (shots) in the Shooting Attack and form a wound pool. You would then choose to allocate wounds from this wound pool one at a time to a model and attempt to make saves for them. You can assign these as you choose to the five completely visible and the one in cover, but if all of these are removed from play and there are still wounds left in the wound pool the remaining wounds are lost.

The key to remember is that when you shoot at a unit you generate wound pool for the unit but then wounds are allocated to models.

Blood Angels Contemptor Dreadnought
This guy is CORE and he’s not even from the cod Credit: Jack Hunter

The unit entry for Legion Contemptor Dreadnoughts states that they get an extra Attack if they take a second close combat weapon. Is this in addition to the one they get for fighting with more than one anyway?

Read as written: yes. There’s nothing to suggest that this line is a reminder, though we’re pretty sure it must be, because Contemptors certainly don’t need any more help. It’s equally weird on the Leviathan, though the other way, and that one seems to modify the stat itself rather than giving an “extra” so it’s all very confusing.

If you’re going by the letter of the rules, this isn’t specified to be a reminder, and so must be taken at face value as being an extra attack in addition to the one they would already get – no other unit gets this notation, and other reminders in unit profiles are called out specifically and reference the specific rule they’re reminding you of. However, we can’t believe this is intended and so it seems extremely likely that this will be brought up in an official FAQ at the earliest opportunity.

We’d recommend that you speak to your opponent about it, and at the GHO event in October we’ll be ruling that it is merely a reminder and not another extra attack.

When using the Combat Air Patrol Advanced Reaction from the Talons of the Legion special rule, do I fire shots I make when arriving from reserves at full BS?

Rules as written: no. The Xiphon can choose to give itself the Skyfire rule at the beginning of the shooting phase, and cannot do so when reacting in this way. That makes these Snap Shots, which deeply sucks. Another one that feels like an oversight and we hope will be clarified soon.

How many shots do my tactical marines fire with Fury of the Legion anyway?

Fury of the Legion allows 2 shots at full range or 3 shots within half range. This is because Fury of the Legion adds one to the number of shots fired when making a Shooting Attack, and rapid fire weapons provide, in effect, two firing modes. They can make two attacks at a target up to half the weapon’s Maximum Range away. Alternatively, they can instead make one attack at a target over half the weapon’s range away, up to the weapon’s Maximum Range.

The key is that “attack” is a word used synonymously with “shot” in these rules, while “Ranged Attack” is a specific phrase used to describe the whole process of firing a ranged weapon. Therefore “attack” in the rapid fire rules can be seen as synonymous with “shot” in the Fury of the Legion rule. Because of this a bolter fired under the effects of Fury of the Legion shoot 3 shots (2+1) at targets under half range and 2 shots (1+1) at targets over.

If I kill a model using the Instant Death rule, how many wounds does that count as causing for the purpose of determining assault results?

Instant Death reduces wounds to 0, and you do lose the wounds required to get to this point. They’re specifically called out as counting towards assault results.

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